Lying and Deception

What does the community really teach about lying?
We went there to intentionally evade the truth.  Now I realize how wrong that was.  – Spoken by Former member
Here, we are hoping to ‘lay low’ with the school authorities until we all move together to Lindach.  Somehow someone reported that we have children here who do not attend school. – Inter Tribal News, March 1996, News from South Germany
When there was a set back the police told our little group to leave the area.  We couldn’t even stay in the parking lot….  What else could we do but leave the exit?  Someone started to tell the others, but I stopped them.  It was better for the rest not to know. – Inter Tribal News, May 1996, News from Hamburg, NY
We are obligated by conscience and the Holy Spirit to never lie.  But to not tell the truth is not a lie.  The truth is hidden from someone who does not deserve to have it. – All liars, p. 2, undated
We could tell them that we are Christians or believers just like them, trying to relate as much as possible otherwise a red flag goes up and they think we are another religion or cult that has nothing to do with the Jesus of the Scriptures. – Inter Tribal News, February 1996, News from Asher
We sent them a long list of doctrinal questions in which few of these were answered.  They said (members in the Twelve Tribes), don’t answer any of their questions about doctrine.  They need Yahshua.  If you get into doctrine before they visit this will just scare them off and they won’t be able to receive life. – Excerpt from letter from Former member
Spriggs calls himself an Apostle.  “I must begin by saying that the only authority I have to be called an Apostle is my fruit.  Of course authority comes from God, but is recognized by men according to its fruit its practicality (sic).” – Apostolic Role, 1976 or 1977, p.1
“Well, I don’t even know why they call me an Apostle.  I don’t like to be called an Apostle.  I don’t call myself an Apostle…..”  – Elbert Spriggs, Bozeman/Palmer Interview, June 1994
Our definition of lying means the intentional deception of those who have a right to know.  The need to know for the sake of justice and righteousness – then we are obligated to tell them it’s true. – Lying  11/29/88
Not telling the truth to someone who doesn’t deserve the truth isn’t lying. – Lying  11/29/88
Transcripts from Televised Program
Eddie Wiseman: “We don’t know where Steve Wooten is.”  Jerry Springer: “And you can’t find him?”
Wiseman: “I can’t find him and I do not know where Steve is.”
Chronicle Video – February 1998
Mary Richardson: “The Messianic Community continues to deny it helped Steve Wooten when he was a fugitive from the law.”
Nate Wooten: “Of course, people knew our location because they were the ones telling us where to go….  I am happy to know that my mom isn’t the bad person she was made out to be.”  (Community members told both boys she had AIDS and was untouchable).
Richardson: “They (the boys) are sad about their father’s insistence that the church didn’t harbor them.”
Nate Wooten: “They said they didn’t have anything to do with it, and my dad continually said, ‘No, they didn’t do it.  They didn’t participate.  That is the biggest lie I have ever heard.”
Geraldo Video – October 1997
Tim Wooten: “They would move me around and that is how they would use you.”
(Both boys have testified in affidavits that they met with Twelve Tribes leaders while living underground, had seen Spriggs (Yoneq), Eddie Wiseman, and Jeannie Swantko (lawyer of the group); and possessed the phone numbers of the leaders in their pockets).
The Journal – October 1983
(CBC) (This is a short interchange about alleged child abuse in the Community).
Community Member (CM): “The mind that you have on it and the mind that I have on it are different and that’s how you have come to say it because the mind you have isn’t the mind I have.”
Reporter (R): “So, it’s okay to lie to me because I’m coming in the wrong spirit.”
CM: “I’m not lying to you ‘cause it’s the spirit, it’s the spirit that counts.”
R: “How can you talk yourself into this?  If you tell me a bare faced lie in front of your God, and (then) you can tell me that’s okay because I’ve come here in the wrong spirit.”
CM: “It’s true spirit.”
R: “I can’t believe how you talk yourself into it.”
CM: “Let’s say I lied to you.”
R: “So why did you do that?”
CM: “I didn’t think it was a lie but the more I come to it, it was a lie.”
R: “So, what is the truth?”
CM: “I couldn’t tell you that because you wouldn’t understand.”

4 Comments On “Lying and Deception”

  1. R: “So, what is the truth?”
    CM: “I couldn’t tell you that because you wouldn’t understand.”

    You can’t understand because you don’t have the holy spirit. Only a 12T member can understand that lying is not lying if you’re lying for a just cause. See, now you understand and anything that’s meant to protect the 12T & members is a just cause. Wasn’t that simple!
    Unfortunately that also means that any interview with a 12T member is going to be filled with lies and generally avoiding the question.
    If you come in the “wrong spirit” you are under an evil influence so lying to evil is not lying.

  2. The fact that the this group by the many teachings coming from one man being Yoneq, which Peter warned about, believes it’s ok to Not tell the truth is no surprise since so many of his teachings add to the Word. Proverbs 30:6 Warns that…”Do not add to His words lest you be chastised and found a “Lair”. Also there are several commandments they don’t believe in obeying at face value due to this ones man’s opinions of adding to the word, from Luke 17:4 to women not talking or teaching as Timothy says, because it says in 1 John That if we claim to know Him and obey Him not we are “Lairs” and the truth is not in them. So it’s no wonder they say here that’s it OK not to tell the truth. Ex Member.

  3. Many thanks to the contributors to this site. As a mother whose ex-partner joined the TT, I find the resources here very useful. As someone with legal and forensic training, I am trying to build a balanced perspective supported by evidence. Ultimately I am trying to work out what is in the best interests of my child, who has to date had limited exposure to the group (never without my presence). I am under pressure from the group to increase our involvement, but I cannot justify agreeing. Much of my hesitancy stems from the huge gulf between the perspectives of the current members, on one hand, and ex-members, on the other hand. I think it’s very important that you continue to communicate your experiences, and to report news that might otherwise be silenced. There is always a public interest in airing both sides of any story. Please keep up the good work. X

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