Kate Wiseman interview on Phish female fans radio
PART 1 OF INTERVIEW aired on October 13, 2019
Content Warning: This episode contains true stories of severe abuse Part one- 12 Tribes Cult- Interview with Kate Wiseman (ex-member), daughter of Ed Wiseman, the co-founder of the 12 Tribes Cult. Hear Kate’s experience of being born, bred and raised within this cult for 30 years. In the first part of this interview, Kate speaks about the early years of the cult and her childhood. Kate shares her intimate & tragic stories that are filled with the truth of her amazing life. This woman is so brave and incredibly strong. She speaks publicly for the first time…..
Source: Phemale-Centrics episode 40
PART 2 OF INTERVIEW aired on October 27, 2019
Content Warning: This episode contains true stories of severe abuse Part 2- 12 Tribes Cult Interview Hear Kate Wiseman, ex-member & daughter of co-founder Ed Wiseman, continued story of her life on the inside of the 12 Tribes Cult. In this episode, Kate shares her story of her arranged marriage, the beginnings of “the bus” on Lots, her love of Phish and her happy ending!
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Source: Phemale-Centrics episode 41
Hi Kate.
My name is Larry and I thoroughly enjoyed these two interviews. What a sad and amazing story you have. But also, what resilience you possess to have been able to go on and thrive with your life. I hope you write that book! I’m so glad you were able to get out.
I knew your dad and mom when they first joined – what was then called – “The Vine House/Vine Christian Community Church” (Twelve Tribes) – in Chattanooga, Tennessee in 1974. I have some stories and could probably fill in some gaps of that early history before they had you children. I also saw first-hand how they changed in about a 2-year period of time from the original 1973 Hippie, Jesus Freak, laid-back, flop house to rigid, authoritarian, mind-control cult.
I quit my involvement with them in ’76 when things started changing and going negative, but I still continued to have contact with your parents and other member up until I went into the Army in Oct. 1982.
I no doubtI met you too, when you were a baby/toddler.
Your mother was a very sweet and beautiful person. I trembled at your story of her illness and passing. . . but also how you kids were left with little support and compassion from the adults.
I know after they all moved to Island Pond in the early 80s, your mother contacted some Christian friends on Signal Mountain, Tenn. and they told me that she had expressed a desire to leave Island Pond and that things were not going well there. I don’t recall any specific details but this wealthy Christian couple were going to take her – and all you children – in. . . but then they did not hear back from her. This was all before I went into the Army in Oct 82.
I’d like to talk with you. If you would like, contact me at larrylcondra@yahoo.com
Thank you. LC
Give me a call, was there in june”74″ Pat, Josie, Sally and Jan Sheldon are my sisters. Lived in the men’s house, worked in Yellow Deli. Names you know
Dickie Cantrell
David Wiseman
James Howell
Mike Redland
Cliff and Paul Daniels
Ronnie and can’t think of their last name
Cell(360)310-0829.
God really rewarded me for listening to this presentation all the way through. Thank you Kate for sharing all of this, it is very Illuminating. And reflects very poorly on the character of Eugene and Marsha Spriggs. I really believed early and they started out with the best of intentions like many people do, but something happened , I don’t know what. Somehow they became the very things that they preach against and so became hypocrites and liars to some extent their own selves It’s very sad. There are various days that I miss my life in the 12 tribes, but then I have to come back to reality and look at all the garbage aspects of that life which are truly terrible and hurtful to people. I regret that I went back several times against common sense and my own better judgment. There are people still there that I consider friends even though I have found I can’t really have contact because there isn’t honesty on their part, it’s hard for there to be honesty when you’re communicating with people that have been severely brainwashed and indoctrinated excessively. They are not allowed by others and within them own selves to see or tell how things honestly are. I found there to be many truly honorable and wonderful people in the 12 tribes and then others who are just as bad as anybody in the world and worse. Spriggs has set up his Teachings to be of equal and greater Authority than people’s individual reading of the Bible. What an awful thing. The Teachings! I don’t hate Gene and Marsha, but I really hope and pray that they can repent before they pass on and take a really honest candid open hearted look at some of the things that they’ve created. They’ve created a mean religious machine that breaks down people and tosses them. Things that have nothing to do with Jesus and his good news. Oh I forgot they teach Jesus is a demon unless you call him yahshua, oh wait, that’s the same historic person. I never could figure out why they feel all of Christianity is demonic and then they themselves are using Christian Bibles and singing some Christian songs. They got me to deny my faith, but they’ll never do it again. Their crap Teachings and lifestyle really ruined my life, but I allowed it to happen and I almost never left, but thank God I did leave and have not returned. As one current member said to me not too long ago, “our life hasn’t changed any Eric, it’s excruciating.” He should know he fell three stories and the tribes never had the decency to take him to the hospital. I feel there’s a strong possibility that money actually rules the tribes, and not the holy spirit of God. By the way what spirit is really behind the 12 tribes? Answer that and a lot of other questions will be answered. Thanks again Kate for telling your story oh, it has really helped and encouraged me, and I’m sure it will help many other people.
Is Bruderhof the way to go then?
Urgent Seeker here consider joining em
Please post alternatives bible-based nation-like communities to the TT
My wife and I first visited in 1989 and we went there to live in Island Pond beginning in March 1990. I knew something was very wrong during our first visit to a couple communities in Vermont, the one in Westminster at the time and also the one in Island Pond. That isn’t to say that people were not nice to us, but I could tell something was very wrong and some of the children were so afraid and not like normal children,… afraid of being hit. I had not known about the 12 tribes until hearing about them from a friend in the bruderhof communities, we were both visiting there. Kate, I believe when we first had contact was the same time that your mom was dying, and I remember being told by my covering AKA dictator person over me that she was being given fruit juice to try to cure her. After she had passed I was told that she died according to Twelve Tribes brainwashing because she had opposed the anointing AKA Eugene Spriggs. And that she had once said he can have real anger. My contact and indoctrination in the 12 tribes really has affected my life for years and even today affects it some but not nearly as bad as before. I wanted it so bad to be the truth, I had prayed earlier in life to be with a people that were together everyday and prayed and work together and love God. Of everything I looked at, perhaps the Benedictine Monastery I visited at Mount Saviour near Elmira New York and the bruderhof communities where are the closest to that ideal, and some of the Mennonites who are not communal, but anywhere there is communal living there are serious problems, added complications, but also added Joy at times. From everything I have experienced with communal living and the potential and almost inevitable pitfalls that occur with it, I think it is far safer for people to stay away from it. I wish so bad that Gene and Marsha Spriggs would change the 12 tribes communities for the better before they die. It’s such a joke now that they advertise their communities as being self-governing, what will always govern the 12 tribes is Gene Spriggs and his wife and whoever are closest to them and the teachings. And when the Spriggs pass on they will always be venerated and the teachings at this rate will be the new dictator. And those who were closest to the Spriggs. For years people will be hearing from those who knew Gene and Marsha. The anointing. The anointing teaches you all things. Gene went from being a sincere Christian brother helping others, to an apostle, and then to a pope dictator. This can happen with any church or religious organization. I think one of the reasons that some people become so mean in the 12 tribes and hurt children and others in so many different ways is so badly, is because they are so miserable and overworked an uninsured in their own salvation with God, because that has been taken away from them. Their forgiveness and salvation rests upon remaining in the community for life and obeying and doing everything they’re told without question, even if their conscience deep down bothers them about something or they really don’t believe one of the teachings. If Gene and Marsha really loved the people in the 12 tribes, they would simply say to the Believers there read the Bible for yourself and pray and seek God, and throw the teachings in the trash. Because some of the teachings directly contradict the Bible and specifically the New Testament. And the teachings also add to the Bible.
where is the true messianic community then?
Seeker, Notice no one is bothering to answer you? Don’t you get it? They are all cults!!! There is no decent religious common purse communities.Messianic or not! They are all run by MAN and it all is a power and control game. The Alpha males rise to the top and use scriptures as means of controlling the sheeple. Just forget about it! Develop a personal relationship with your God and pray in the closet…Treat your neighbor as you would like to be treated and spread the Gospel to the corners of the earth and if all else fails, use words…
Yes, I do get it. But I dont know what else to do. I Always wanted to live in a nationlike community. Tight and without much contact to the fallen world. My wife remarried and my family is dying. Id like to have childrdn again, but not in this godless world of consumption. I am considering WWOOFing now. But there is something to their message. I love their songs and the food at least at friday evening is similar to what I am used to.
I feel ever more estranged from the world and its ways.
But I have a hard time being observed so tightly. I know there will be sacrifices to make before the return of messiah. Children will be sacrificed and I will have to get ready to live tightly in a wildernis like situation. I cant keep on lulling myself watching Drachenlord all day. My life has no aim at the moment. I know I am just burning time. I want to be useful for the messianic purpose without being abused and Id like this to be so for all seekers, bible readers and TT members. Please god help us
I understand your longings, Seeker. The problem with any type of communalism you can start out with the best most well-intentioned most loving and caring people but they may not remain that way. There has to be strong leadership to keep it all together and organized, but the leadership itself may turn into a big problem and become harmful to others. We live in a sinful world. Nothing is perfect here. A true Messianic Jesus loving type life that looks forward to a perfect heaven can begin in your own heart. God is love and God is forgiving when we respond to him. A true Messianic life can begin with our own daily quiet time with him and scripture verses that come to life from the Bible. We can become friends with other like-minded people and pray together and share our experiences and work on common projects and goals for the betterment of ourselves and others. And we can do all this without being communal. Without relying on an organization or a structure. It’s good for people to be able to have some privacy. To have their very own room or their very own apartment or their very own home. And it’s very healthy for all spiritual and religious matters to be voluntary not mandatory. At this point in life’s journey, I fellowship with Assembly of God type people and also value Quaker type meetings. There is more I would like to do, such as have a Saturday evening type time where people can come and eat and listen and perform gospel music and also have prayer time and testimony and other things like that. But no matter what people envision or wish to do religiously or spiritually or otherwise, somebody has to go to work, somebody has to earn a living one way or the other to support themselves or to support themselves and others. I am not trying to hinder your search or block anything that might be good for you. I can only say that I put myself and some others that I loved through an unnecessary how bye getting involved in various communal endeavors. I like to encourage myself and others to remain free. To be completely honest with oneself and others as much as possible.
I don’t know whether they’ll publish my reply or not but, I have visited the twelve tribe communities and I think you owe it to yourself to at least visit and decide for yourself rather than just listen to slander online they’re very hospitable, and very open about their beliefs and will answer any questions
Eric C
I think the only thing the Spriggs could do any good would to be admit what hypocrite coward failure they are and perverts and give up their ill begotten gain
For those reading this, if you read the book Animal Farm by George Orwell, you will see in an easy-to-understand way what happens in a situation such as the 12 tribes, where an ideal of equality amongst all becomes something very different and very hurtful to many of the people. The tribe’s condemn Christianity for having a clergy laity system of the Nicolaitans, and that is true for various churches, but the tribes have the same thing, only worse, with more damage being done. The tribes say they are the only ones bearing good fruit in the world, that they are the only ones who have the Holy Spirit of God, even calling themselves the container for the Holy Spirit. Really???
Thanks for the insights from a former “upper echelon member”
I’d love to hear a Twelve Tribe’s farm communities’ opinion on that whole climate change and carbon dioxide (CO2) almost cultic stuff being portrayed all over main stream media these days… I’d even pay for a detailed, in-depth analysis/opinion by several of the TT’s farmers or elders.
Because, I don’t trust main stream media one bit…and organic farmers with supposedly connection to the Lord should know what this is all about and AFAIK they were targetting environmental topics (pollution, permaculture…) in a free paper.
This woman has an incredible amount of power pouring out of her. However already within the first 30 seconds of these podcasts I had to think about “rebellion and trouble” just by listening to her voice. Yet still, incredible way of life. I surely do understand the troubles of Twelve Tribes members and the pressure therein.
But I ask you: how do Yellow Delis and Cafes manage to offer this incredible quality of food? It is soooo yummy, tasty, healthy and superb in quality! Usually people under pressure or turmoil do not tend to produce quality products…a real quality leap between them and other communities…and already the little ones like once little Kate here manage to do this.
To sad, they seemingly have no time for recreation and relaxation.
Have you ever seen Amish furniture or there foods? Same with the Bruderhoff and others? You don’t think they are under pressure or turmoil? BS! They also sell the best fresh Yerba Mate in the nation but what does that have to do with the fruit of the tree? “Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.” Their fruit are these broken and PTSD riddled children who have are the flotsam and jetsam of this Cult Ship! 1000s of them!!! Read this website a little more and maybe you will learn a little more about this “Cute and quaint, Hippy type, Communes…”. GRRRR!!!!
Kate,
Your mom was the personification of beauty inside and out. Hearing you reminds me of her. Your sharing helped put to rest any romantic ideas I had about the community.
I could share with your dad the most deep truths, He would connect with me. A minute later he’d go right back to his hypnotic mind set as if nothing had happened. I was in IP late 70s early 80s. I visited about 5 times after I left.
Your dad spent a night or 2 at my parents home with me in NJ when he came to pick up Arthur and Judy Nunn at Newark airport. I had a dream about him coming and I hadn’t heard from the community in about a year. Then your mom called — “Hi, Doug, This is Mary Wiseman. Eddie is picking up Arthur and Judy at Nwk airport and was wondering if they could spend the night with you”.
Your dad is so charismatic but like a person under hypnosis
R teaches against letting others control you. After a 3 day seminar he says “Some of you have more serious problems and need extra help. I’m going to do a little experiment. Loosen up your top button and put your jewelry in your pocket. I want you to squeeze your hand as tight as you can. Harder. Harder. You can’t let go. Those of you who can’t let go come forward. Stop squeezing your hand. When I touch my tie you will get an irresistible urge to put your shoes on the opposite feet.” Touches his tie.
R — “How come you have your shoes on the opposite feet?”
S — “I don’t know. It just felt better”
R — “Do you remember me telling you that under hypnosis people will never admit they are being controlled and make up excuses?”
S — “Yes, I remember”
R — Do you remember me teaching you these last few days why it is wrong to let others control your will?”
S — “Yes”
R — “Do you remember me telling you when I touch my tie you’ll put your shoes on the opposite feet?”
S — “Yes”
R — Then how come you put your shoes on the opposite feet?”
S — “I had a bunion”
That’s your dad. He’s in a hypnotic state and he’s being used. I assume it’s called dissociating.
When I came to the community they were a Christian community. I was the only one who didn’t work on the sabbath or eat non kosher food. After a few months Gene Sprigs started saying stuff like “The Jews are trying to make us jealous”. They changed from Sunday to Saturday and started eating kosher.
When I got there I was almost a week out of 6 months in a seclusion room from one of the best private psychiatric hospitals near DC. If you think the community is a cult imagine if they had seclusion rooms, other forms of torture and societies approval. IP was impoverished but I was so glad to just be free to take a walk and talk to people. I was like the example to all the unhappy people of contentment with little.
Really funny — We recently started eating lunch from 2 meals a day. Marsha made sandwiches for the guys. I said “In some societies they would consider one mans wife making food for other men to be adultery” It was something I read. Surprise surprise.
Anyways, thanks again. If you’re ever in NJ I’d love to meet you. May God, the eternal uncreated intelligence/power/love dwelling in “heaven”, the ultimate (as opposed to relative) non things that define all things bless you!
Doug R
My experience in the Twelve Tribes and why I left can be summed up in what the Apostle Paul warned in Galatians chapter 1 verse 1 thur 10. That if a angel comes to you or we ourselves come to you teaching anything contrary to what we taught you, then let him be eternally accursed. And 2 Timothy 4:3 that says…For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of Teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. This is why I could not find the faith that exceeds the pharisees there or in Christianity and as of yet, but it’s no surprise to me since it says The whole world is being lead astray by the evil one. (Revelation 12:9) The fact of the matter is, like christanity they claim to know Him yet are unwilling to obey all His commandments as required in ( Acts 3:22 thur 23, Mathew 28:20, 1 Timothy 6:3)and not add or take away from Gods words in Proverbs 30:6, and Duetromony 4:2, Revelation 22:18. I pray that they will obey everything the son of God commanded or they maybe just apart of the Powerful Delusion mentioned in 2 Thesolonians chapter 2,like so many other groups, if they finaly get it, in the meantime my search for His Spotless Bride continues. Respectfully Martin known as Benaiah in the community.
Totally agree. Galatians all the way. The leadership at that place never got it.
“Yoneq” Spriggs died a few days ago I believe.
He can take it up with the Lord now.
This personal testimony of life inside the TT through a child’s eyes is extremely powerful. Thank you for presenting your story in detail. I lasted 8 months at the Boston house near Jamaica Plain before realizing it was not what I thought and “escaping from them who live in error”.
Hey there Kate thanks so much for sharing your story!! I could relate so much to much of what you said since I am an ex member and actually lived in the same house in Vista as you did as well as the morning star ranch in Valley center but about 8 or 9 years later so we never met. I look forward to reading a copy of your book when it is done. I’m so happy you escaped and that you found your own happiness in life as I did.
I’ve been out for 2 months actually I was thrown out without my family a wife and 6 lovely children all because I dared to speak out about all the evil manipulative ways they disregard the gospel and lord over the sheep. My children have been severely hurt and put into harms way many times in my 9 year involvement with the T.T. without medical care I almost lost my second youngest daughter because of their neglect. I demanded that we take her to the hospital when they saw that I wasn’t backing down they relented but they never took care of the bill. We stayed up 4 days straight with her not knowing if she was going to make it no thanks to the T.T. leadership I think you are very courageous and I was astonished at your testimony but not at all surprised God has revealed to me that they are not to be trusted.dont get me wrong though there are still good people there though that are just caught up in this mess