My Take On The Yellow Deli People (+responses) – from section titled OPINION – 7 may 2015

Thursday, May 21, 2009

Last August I came to UTC as a freshmen studying Political Science and Anthropology, I was warned by staff and local family to stay away from “them Yella Deli people” because they are a “cult.” I being naturally a rebellious teenager wandered in their restaurant wondering who these kooky people were. I slowly became acquainted with the workers, smiles of recognition but kept my distance.

I finally started attending their “Open Forums” rather spontaneous debates attended by “cult” members, students, local professionals and even on occasion local clergy from various churches.

I have studied the group intently online, there is no shortage information on the group; most of the cult experts I have found online seem to be as shady as the groups they chase. Couple of the cult professionals who have written most extensively have criminal records with charges such as kidnapping, robbery of a jewelry store, and sexual offenses. Two imply that they have graduated from Cambridge University in England when in reality they graduated with professional degrees from a community college in Massachusetts. Much of the “propaganda” or “truth” on these sites is suspect and only as good as the nonexistent paper it is printed on.

To dispel a few rumors:

The group however maintains several so called “compounds” in Brainerd and Fort Wood. These “compounds” are not gated razor wired houses but rather look like any house on the block. Having been inside nearly all of these over the past year the only differences within are minor, namely lack of television radio and dishwasher.

The main criticism when they built their new Deli after years in exile from Chattanooga was that their location was too near UTC. However, the reality is that they have what can best be described as a “don’t ask, don’t tell policy.” No one is evangelized who doesn’t go in seeking spiritual advice. Of the three people who have joined the group since they opened none have been students of any kind.

Every media article I have read has pointed out the members work without pay; though technically true their every need is provided for in the group. In fact the lone deli supports the needs of nearly 45 members. The other rumor I find is that they don’t use doctors or modern medicine, they have one local doctor within the group and I know of several members who have received treatment at Erlanger.

The charges of racism are unfounded as one the founders was black. The charges of anti-semitism are equally ludicrous, They often adopt Hebrew names, they sing in Hebrew and use books of the Torah extensively in their teachings. Having met many of their “leaders” I think they are very sincere in their beliefs and are honest about there desires. The idea that they were “chased out of Chattanooga” is equally strange when you considered they left over a five year period.

I contend that if we must call them a cult let us clarify that they are a fairly benign one that has helped a rehabilitated a drug addict, took a kid on the streets off them, and helped lost souls into a new life. These are not people worshiping their leader; they are merely worshiping Jesus (who is referred to by his Hebrew name Yahsua) in the best way they have found how. Is it like the rest of mainstream Christianity? No, they pride themselves on being different. The fact is society does not like what is different; media likes to stirrup controversy and ministers speak against theological differences.

Let us leave them be, let them live their life as they let you live yours. Call me a naive college student who has had the wool pulled over his eyes. I really don’t care. I am merely someone who grows tired people who spew information without checking out the validity for themselves.

Bryan Barkley
UTC Sophomore

* * *

After living here in Chattanooga 13 years, if people are not hardcore right-wing fundamentalists then they are considered to be a cult.

To me it is people’s narrow-minded views of other religious and spiritual beliefs. I am a very spiritual woman but do not attend any church on a regular basis.

The Yellow Deli folks are not harming anyone.

Darlene Rochelle
North Chattanooga

* * *

I am not agreeing or disagreeing with Mr. Barkley’s remarks, but I would like to point out the fact that having a criminal record doesn’t dictate one’s remarks to be right or wrong.

Personally, I have no issue with the Yellow Deli; up until I graduated from UTC in December, I ate there once or twice a week, and the service was always great, outdone only by the quality of its food. I would still eat there if my job took me in that area, but unfortunately, it does not.

I was never recruited by them in any way, but I can understand how some people might get the impression that they do try to recruit. It has nothing to do with being “narrow-minded”; it’s simply a matter of interpretation.

And to Darlene, having lived in Chattanooga for 24 years, I know that your comment about right-wing fundamentalists, whether intended to be taken literally or figuratively, is just as “narrow-minded” (a word which is now challenging “racism” for the title of “The Most Played-Out and Loosely-Used Term”) as the views of other religious and spiritual beliefs that you characterize as such. Mr. Barkley’s opinion article had nothing to do with politics, and it is simply childish of you to say something like that. Grow up.

Dallas Cole-UTC Alum

* * *

I never cease to be amazed when people write the to voice an opinion (Ms. Rochelle), announce how many years they have lived in Chattanooga since moving here and then express such contempt for the people or the city. If I had such disdain for those living around me, I would move.

Ralph Miller

* * *

While I applaud Bryan for his internet research I must tell you my young friend that you have fallen short in your studying of this group. I know people personally who were affected by this group. There own children “voluntarily” joined this group only to be whisked out of the city and the state to another of the group’s compounds. There all their personal belongings and identity were slowly merged to a group mentality. If you are going to do serious research, get off of Wikipedia and get some primary sources. Talk to people who were affected by the group.

They were also forbidden to contact their family. The family was shut out and saw the changes occurring in their child’s life. So that is the history of the group in Chattanooga.

I did not know what you expected when you walked in to their store and began conversation. Did you really expect them to have glowing red eyes, fangs, and a pied piper’s flute leading children into the back room?

“Those who do not study history are bound to repeat it.” While there is room for change this group’s ideologies are the same as they were when they were in Chattanooga before. While I am not comparing the two groups I am comparing the stories. People used to think that the People’s Temple were some of the most friendly, communal living, gentle folks every. Then suddenly 900+ committed suicide/murdered under the oversight of Jim Jones.

Don’t judge a book by its cover but by its contents. The contents do not appear to have changed much about this group. It is not narrow mindedness but wisdom. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.

Johnny Franks

* * *

Until you’ve witnessed the Twelve Tribes from the inside firsthand, you’re not qualified to comment on them. The first time they were in town, when they were the Vine Street Community, my mom joined up and I was a member by default since I was very young. I don’t have memories of us holding hands and dancing and singing like they try to portray to outsiders. I have memories of being beaten until I bled on a daily basis, sleeping in strange men’s beds, babies being born without any medical care and dying as often as living, going hungry and eating dandelions and grass from lack of food.

They work the children like adults and take them from their parents at a very young age. This is very traumatizing to a four- or five-year-old. My mom was sometimes in a different state for months and I was forced to sleep on floors because no one wanted to bother looking after me.

They refused my mother medical care when she was bleeding to death and needed an emergency hysterectomy. The elders told her if God wanted her to be healed, he would heal her. This is the point at which she got fed up enough to leave.

I now suffer from chronic Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, it was so bad. These are the things they won’t tell you until they’ve sucked you in, taken all your money and worldly possessions from you, and forced you to cut ties with everyone from your old life so you have no escape route.

Then they ship you off to another country or up North, and separate your family to different locations so even if you left, your spouse and kids would be held “hostage” to bring you back.

These sadistic bleepers will not get a penny of my money, no matter how good of a sandwich they make. I will speak out against them every chance I get. If adults are weak minded and desperate enough for someone to tell them every move to make and still determined to join up, that’s fine. But don’t drag your helpless kids with you. They’d stand a better chance being left with a random stranger or in the foster care system. And I really do mean that.

Julie Watts

* * *

I first encountered “Reya” (Bill Johnson) and “Olah” (Kathy Johnson) after reading a newspaper article describing the Twelve Tribes communal group in Lakeview, N.Y., in October of 1995. Upon meeting the larger household with whom they lived, Twelve Tribes members greeted me with smiles, hugs, compliments, tea, Hebrew dancing and testimonies.

The Twelve Tribes currently operates the bakery Common Ground in Hamburg, New York. Often standing behind the counter, Olah explained to me that the tribes continued in the footsteps of the first church community which fell away in the first century A. D. I believed they were Christians. Their propaganda didn’t cause me alarm or any concerns. In retrospect, this is a rather radical idea indeed. This thought is common among the numerous American cults.

I attended the Twelve Tribes early morning gatherings known as “sacrifices” and often visited the Common Ground bakery to speak with Olah and Reya. According to Steve Hassan, a Somerville, Mass., cult researcher, “Cults look for highly intelligent, well educated people who find themselves situationally vulnerable. Cults seek people who are undergoing a transition such as a recent move or a lost job, recently divorced persons or those just entering college.” Since I was so eager to purchase what the Twelve Tribes were selling, instant camaraderie, family and friendship, a highly structured environment, and brothers and sisters, I found myself enmeshed in the world of mind control. As I desired to join the Twelve Tribes, Reya and Olah informed me that I must relinquish all my possessions (job, parents and extended family, car, etc) and unite with them working for the building up of the kingdom of Yahshua. Yahshua is the Hebrew name of the Son of God.

Communal men found themselves employed in the Common Ground bakery or in the Twelve Tribes construction business known as Winterset builders. All community members enjoyed the benefits of a common purse. About three weeks after reading the newspaper article, I quickly linked with the Twelve Tribes community. My parents especially my mother held serious reservations about confederating with such a group because she feared they were a cult. In retrospect, she was correct. Several months after joining with the Twelve Tribes community, Ne eman (Al Jayne) and the other elders told me to return my 1993 Ford Ranger truck to the dealership where they reluctantly repossessed the vehicle. The community blatantly refused to pay my truck and student loans which devastated my credit. Lies, lies, lies.

The Twelve Tribes quickly put me to work in the kitchen preparing meals for 40 to 50 people, and I often received help from another single sister. I lived with the Twelve Tribes for 2 ½ years and endured many days with tear-streaked cheeks because of three herniated discs I suffered in a prior auto accident. I rarely received medical help and prescription medication for my back pain while a member of the community.

Failing to express much empathy for my physical condition, twelve tribes elder “Ne eman (Al Jayne) stated that community members needed to bear great suffering in order to enter the kingdom of Yahshua. Incredibly one elder “Aquila the gorilla” (Ricky Kendricks), told me shortly before I was expelled in June 1998 for “rebellion” – that my tolerance for physical pain needed to considerably increase. I felt like bopping him in the nose.

As a Twelve Tribes community member I experienced difficulty with the requirement of severing links with family members and parents. Because of this, I would often sneak away to see or call my parents, which angered the elders resulting in disfellowshiping. When a community member experienced disfellowshipping from their brothers and sisters and Yahshua, shunning also followed. Also as a punishment, I could not participate in the breaking of bread while I was not connected to Yahshua and the rest of the group. Breaking of bread is a time to gather on Saturday evening to remember Yahshua’s resurrection from the grave. Tribes members assemble for an intimate dinner of light soup and unleavened bread, and alternate sharing how they desire to overcome that week for the sake of Yahshua and their brothers and sisters. If the disfellowshipped member desires reconciliation with his brothers and sisters and Yahshua, he needs to publicly repent at the morning or evening gathering.

While laboring to build up the kingdom of Yahshua on a hot summer day, a single sister and I rinsed maggots off potatoes. The little wiggling worms were disgusting and gross, and I rejected any potatoes for my evening’s meal. I really suffered when I worked in the communal kitchen. While the men obtained new tools from Home Depot, I hand chopped cabbage and shredded carrots because the Twelve Tribes wouldn’t buy a food processor for the lowly women. I constantly cut my fingers on the exceedingly dull knives I was forced to use.

Almost all Twelve Tribes members work 16 to 18 hour days with no pay, health care, insurance, vaccinations for the children or medical care. Because of my severe back injury, I could not work like most community slaves. I went to bed at 9:00 p.m. almost every night. In comparison, most tribes members went to bed at 11:00 or 12:00 p.m. or later and then awakened at 5:00 a.m. for the morning minchah or gathering.

After the Twelve Tribes excommunicated me for “rebellion”, I educated myself on cults and how they recruit. I traveled to the Wellspring Retreat and Resource Center in Albany, Ohio for two weeks and received education pertaining to my cult involvement. The Twelve Tribes horribly disparage Christianity, but I wish to acknowledge the wonderful generosity of an unnamed Christian who prefers the designation “Ms. Christmas.” Ms. Christmas donated $5,000 so I could participate in the program at Wellspring Retreat and Resource Center. Thank you, Ms. Christmas. Several days after I left the Twelve Tribes, I counseled with Bob Pardon and Judy Barba, (now Bob’s wife) of the New England Institute of Religious Research. As my mother and I traveled toward Lakeville, Mass., in our meeting with Bob Pardon and Judy Barba, I was terrified, because of phobia indoctrination or bad things occur if you leave the protective confines of the community. I clearly feared an an imminent car accident and sudden lightning bolts from the sky. Elbert Eugene Spriggs, the leader of the Twelve Tribes, vilified Bob Pardon and his ministry in a scathing letter. I believed like all tribes members that Bob Pardon was the devil incarnate. In my mind Bob even had horns. After 10 hours of driving from Buffalo, New York to Lakeville, Mass., I refused to exit my mother’s car because the NEIRR ministry was housed in a church building. Once again the community used phobia indoctrination causing me to believe that if I entered a Christian building or church that “the roof would collapse,” a tornado would rip through the building, or poison gas would circulate through the air conditioning system.” According to the inane ramblings of “Yoneq”, (Elbert Spriggs) Christianity is the “whore of Babylon and the mother of harlots.”

Bob and Judy patiently and kindly approached our car and introduced themselves to my mother and myself. My mother explained the situation to Bob and Judy, and they said that they understood my predicament because of his experience with other former members of the Twelve Tribes. After Bob calmly spoke with me and exhibited Christian compassion, I eventually summoned enough courage to enter the NEIRR ministry building! To my surprise, no poison gas surged through the air condition system of the building, neither was there a tornado! When I exited the car, I was still wearing “sus pants (balloon pants) and long wavy dry and extremely damaged hair because of a lack of hair conditioner. My hair lacked control and took on a frizzy appearance. I looked like cousin “It” from the Addams Family! If my appearance frightened Bob and Judy, they failed to say so; they were so kind and gracious. Today, my shoulder length curly brown hair is properly nourished and healthy.

Several months after the Twelve Tribes asked me to leave because of “rebellion”, I wavered about returning. I kept all my “sus” pants and blouses that made me look significantly pregnant until several months after I attended the Wellspring Retreat and Resource Center in Albany, Ohio.

During my time as a member of the Twelve Tribes cult, I turned over $6,000 I received in an auto injury settlement previous to my involvement with the community. In October of 1998 my mother and I (mostly my mother because I was still scared) spoke with Al Jayne (“Ne eman”) and demanded my $6,000 returned with interest. When he balked, we said we would take action, but we did not specify. When a week passed with no resolution, we constructed large white poster signs with black letters that read “Common Ground Common Thieves.” My mother and I then picketed outside the bakery in Hamburg, New York for two days until they returned my money.

The Twelve Tribes uses mind control on their members. They control behavior, information, thoughts, and emotions. The community also controls its members spiritually, financially, psychologically, and physically and manipulates its members into staying through fear and coercion.

Elbert Eugene Spriggs, who claims the title of “Apostle” and the “prophet Elijah” is the sole unchallenged leader of the Twelve Tribes cult. Spriggs says of himself, “I must begin by saying that the only authority I have to be called an apostle is my fruit. Of course authority comes from God, but is recognized by men according to its fruit its practicality.” (Apostolic Role)

Elbert Eugene Spriggs also claims a “direct pipeline to God,” and enjoys the position of a special messenger with a unique revelation. Community members must obey him and his teachings or risk shunning or excommunication. In one of his many teachings Spriggs says, “This is a word to all true disciples. Our Father revealed to me that we were to observe the Sabbath- the day He made, not Sunday.” (Observing the Sabbath)

Only Elbert Eugene Spriggs gives original teaching, and his writings carry final authority within the Twelve Tribes. Accountable to no one, Spriggs exercises totalitarian control over community members.

Every member must submit to the elders who later yield to the wishes and demands of the leader Spriggs.

The community exercises control over members in the areas of dress, and the regulation of where one lives. Writing to community members, Spriggs says, “When we are in the body we have no independent action or movement.” (AWM 6/12/88 ) Desiring to impose maximum control on tribes members, Spriggs dictates that everyone within the communes must live communally because this ensures the monitoring of their behavior, the information they receive, and the close observance of their thoughts and emotions.

All men must wear their hair in short ponytails with a long beard and all women grow their hair long. Forbidden to tuck in their shirts, tribal men look like slobs. Considering clean shaven men as emasculated and Roman, tribal men cannot shave or closely trim their beards. Women wear long dresses, skirts or “sus” pants.

It is the aim of the Twelve Tribes commune to obliterate all independence, (thought, action, freedom of movement, opinions, access to information, and access to families) and to drive them into a hopeless, dispirited, gray herd of robots. They have lost all personal ambition, are easy to rule, willing to obey and willing to exist in selfless slavery to Elbert Eugene Spriggs.

The Twelve Tribes tightly controls what their members eat and their enjoyment thereof.

The Twelve Tribes physically and financially exploit their members putting men and women to work as long as (16–18) hours with no wages and little if any medical care. Members give everything and receive nothing in return except dances, hugs, baked squash, millet, beets, maggot infested potatoes, teachings and house arrest. As one brother said a couple of days prior to finally leaving, “I’m so tired… I’m so tired.” He could barely drive the car. After his departure, the elders said, “his parents spoiled and pampered him.” The Twelve Tribes routinely use people and them cast them aside as “weak.”

The Twelve Tribes practices brutal information control as community members cannot read newspapers, books, listen to radio, go to libraries, attend movies, or connect to the Internet. As a result of totalitarian control in all four areas of the cult member’s life (B.I.T.E), crippling group dependency occurs.

Cults routinely use outright lying and deception. Although the community denies lying to outsiders and authorities, the teachings of Elbert Eugene Spriggs say otherwise.. “We are obligated by conscience and the Holy Spirit to never lie. But to not tell the truth is not a lie. The truth is hidden from someone who does not deserve it.” (All Liars)

The community severely restricts information from “disgruntled” ex members and any critical information from reaching the “sheep.”

And in another teaching, Spriggs said, “You’re to tell on your husband, tell on your brothers and sisters. That’s love. To not do this is hate and then you’re a murderer because you are robbing them of life.” (Seeking First His Kingdom/Washing/The Narrow Road )

The community publishes inner doctrine (Inter tribal news) for the consumption of baptized members and outer doctrine for all others such as their free papers and other various publications.

The Twelve Tribes routinely inhibit critical thinking so that a “group think” mentality predominates. Commenting on a Spriggs teaching called “Reasoning,” a tribe’s member says, “Reasoning makes my life complicated and dark. There was a time I envied the flowers and birds whose life seemed so simple. Tonight I received hope because we are called to live a simple life – a life of obedience.”

The community uses though terminating cliche’s such as “It is better to be wrong together than right alone.” These cliche’s or thought terminating phrases eliminate the need for thought and argument and produce immediate obedience.

Emotion control as practiced within the Twelve Tribes narrows a person’s emotional responses, because the gray area’s of life slowly diminish to black and white. This manipulation and narrowing of emotions occurs in four ways with the regular use of shame, guilt, fear (phobia indoctrination) and anger..

“The community locked me in a closet and forced me to stand naked in front of a group of adults,” said the recently arrested bank robbery suspect Joseph Kirby.. Joseph Kirby and his sister Shemini endured years of similar abuse at the hands of community members, but decided to make their escape as teenagers. Subsequently placed in foster care because their mother, a faithful community member, believed them impossible to raise within the confines and dictates of the Spriggs run community. The foster care system labeled them as deeply troubled, rebellious and incorrigible.

When a group employs all four components (Behavior, Information, thoughts, and emotions) to control the processes of members, cult researchers refer to this as mind control. With these parameters in place, I’m quite comfortable in labeling the Twelve Tribes a mind control cult.

Cheryl Lewczyk
Hamburg, New York

6 Comments On “My Take On The Yellow Deli People (+responses)”

  1. I really appreciate the responses, and especially Cheryl Lewczyk’s. The best way we can heal is by sharing our stories with each other. Women, particularly are made to suffer the most, and are the missing piece in the puzzle to understand this cult. Thank you so much.

  2. I was also sent away for rebellion. My life has been in total shambles since. I suffer PTSD from my time with the Yellow Dell People as well. My story shifts here.
    I was rebellious. Not to a cult or “leaders” but to the word of God. I was sent away because of my own selfishness. These stories you are reading are not a true representation of the church. I could go on all day about the truth but I don’t think you want that. Most people love to vilify different or odd people. I’ve never met a group of happier nor genuinely content people in my life. Feel free to call my telephone number if you would like to hear Truth about this family of people of honor courage and commitment. Please contact me if you want words from an ex member that takes responsibility for their own shortcomings, actions, lies, and weakness to sin.

  3. This is all a bunch of lies from cowards who couldn’t take living the true calling of God if you want to talk to me about the truth call me 704 858 1168 I will tell you all about the loving way the community care for another just like Jesus did

  4. They are racist, because they clearly believe a curse remains on all black people, unless they join the Twelve Tribes. Black non-members are to rightly be slaves to white people. They try to hide and twist Yoneq’s Cham Teaching.

  5. It’s a terrible for a group to think they are the only ones that have the Creator’s Holy Spirit fullness. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Creator comes upon people anywhere, at anytime, at any place. When i was a member i was told that the Tribes communities was the only container on earth for the Holy Spirit, yet what i mainly saw was overworked broken-down exhausted deprived people, and women who rarely smiled, except when guests were around. There were happy times, and i miss those, but If you say anything against their lifestyle or beliefs, they call it “malicious lies and slander”. Meanwhile they slander anyone they like and all other churches. Never once did I see anyone healed by God there. But some people died of untreated cancer. Shame on you Twelve Tribes, letting your own people die, because you didn’t want to spend any money on health care, just for some fruit juice for the cancer victims! I also was never impressed with the men’s scraggly goat beards and ponytails. The boys are required to wear the ponytails also, and other children in public think they are girls sometimes, and it’s embarrassing for the Tribe’s children when they are allowed outside in public. I don’t like the Tribes doing those home circumcisions on baby boys and other males. And why should children be hit for playing pretend or using a toy? The whole community is playing pretend. Pretending they are religious Jews, when they are not! Ask Jews For Judaism about them. I don’t think the Twelve Tribes are as great as they think themselves to be. They think they are “the only true work of Yah (God) on earth since the apostles.” Wow. Really? Again, nothing could be further from the truth, but they will tear down any other church or religion or individual to lift themselves up into a prideful elite “Chosen People” status as “the New Israel”, which they are not. They only very selectively obey the Torah. And they say “Jesus of Christianity is a demon.” You have to actually live there to experience all the hurtful nonsense. It’s like stepping in dog poop, spiritually and emotionally. Basically, everyone is to “take on the mind” of their apostle Gene Spriggs and his “Teachings”. He got the Twelve Tribes commune train rolling, and no one knows where the brakes are located. Just recruit more people who will recruit more people who will recruit more people to give the cult all your money and possessions to have the personal security of becoming a work-for-free slave. I did enjoy playing community volleyball and working in the metal forge, and i did find the gatherings meaningful when people would individually share a personal testimony or experience. I wish the communities could be more of what they are advertised to be. People join a dream, then reality hits after you gave them everything you have and sold your soul to a cult. I never was interested in their hippie recruiting cult buses. Reminded me too much of Jim Jones, and he originally did way more for cult members than the Tribes do. But i pray some for the Tribes that somebody could make it to the commune train controls and make it a better more Biblical loving place for everybody, especially the women and children. Yoneq & HaEmeq (Eugene & Marsha Duvall Sprigg’s) it’s not to late to correct mistakes. We all make them. Time help the Twelve Tribes communities before you pass on. It’s not too late. Please help the people. And don’t take away the toddler chairs from the children and force them to sit on the floor for long gatherings. Shame on you. You sit on the floor!

  6. I entered into and was baptized by Twelve Tribes in Island Pond, VT after meeting them at Madison Square Garden, a Dead show. I was initially so impressed with their way of life and character! I left when the veneer came off, the control set in, and I witnessed substantial abuse of children. The “anointed” (us) subsisted on millet, onions, some tofu, yogurt once a week, and squash. Carrot sticks for sweets. The kids were under Constant adult supervision, even when ignored. If they used their imagination in any way but labor, they were hit with rods for “dissipation “, and I’ve seen 6 month old babies with welts on their bottoms and legs that just hurt to look at (the baby didn’t climb the stairs in “training”- their word for daycare… ps- No toys allowed for any child! I saw a 3 yr old try to make a doll to play with, spanked promptly for “dissipation “)
    I left many years ago, but still loved many people I lived with there. I tried to visit a few times, but was deemed a threat if I didn’t repent and rejoin. I slept on a top-bunk with two other “single women” while I was ther, and my bottom bunk-mate had to share her single-bunk with her 9 year old daughter. Trust me, there are good people in the Twelve Tribes. Overall, they exploit their members, subjacate the women, and abuse their children; who are deprived of any childhood in the process. I’m tired of seeing people who visit their establishments and say their good folk with a bad rap. Let them baptize you and live a year inside before you say another word…. I’m still working my way through it, and it’s been a few decades.

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